Subject:
Date: 30 Nov 95
From: daccordo@iac.co.jp (Naomi S. Smith)
I saw your posting about Chitwan in Nepal. I would say that if yuo book it at home it will cost you an arm and a leg,as you seem to indicate. If you want 100% guaranteed luxury and no potential hassles, then that is OK. If you are a little bit adventurous and not on a very tight schedule, I recommend going to Nepal and booking all of your trekking/chitwan/rafting/etc. in Kathmandu. Almost all the tour opertaors there charge exactly the same for very similar activities. You can book a package from the tourist desk of a ritzy hotel and still pay less than what your are talking about.
I admit that I did not go to chitwan, and friends of mine who did booked it from Kathmandu (KTM) and had no problems, but they did not say that I had missed anything earth shattering, so I never went. I did spend a month in Nepal and trekked in Anapurnas and visited some amazing little towns in the KTM valley outside of the capital. I never booked in advance and I used the local agents when I needed to book a bus or hotel. I personally would much rather have my dollars go into Nepalese pocktets than to some big American/British tour company, which still pays the Nepalese guides and porters the same you would pay to hire them yourself.
I trekked with one other girl and we hired a guide to take us for about 10 days (then 4 days or so alone for me) and he was great. We stayed in wonderful little guest houses and had our choice of food homecookd for us.
We met people on the big expensive tours they booked from home and they slept in tents, ate what they were told to and did not get to really meet Nepalese people and visit in their homes (most guest houses are actually people's homes and they treat you like a special guest, even on the Annapurnas trek which is kind of crowded). Our guide chose houses where he knew the owners and we never stayed in a place that I would complain about.
In fact, the first night we paid 10 rupees (about US $.20 (20cents) at the time) to stay in an absolutley wonderful spot and very clean too. In fact, we paid about US$ 3 or 4 per person each day for trekking, including the guide's wages, our food and lodging, etc. We paid the man what he asked and did not try to bargain with him.
Sorry for going on here, but Nepal is wonderful and you can have a great experience, without spending a lot. My goal was not for a CHEAP holiday , but for a memory to keep for a lifetime.
……
Naomi Smith
daccordo@iac.co.jp Naomi S. Smith daccordo@iac.co.jp
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Subject: Chitwan (Tigertops lodge)
From: petkai@nanda.pp.fi (Petri Kaipiainen)
Date: 14 Sep 95
>……
Tiger Tops is MUCH more expencive than other lodges, maybe you get better service, but I doubt if it is worth ten times the price.
As far as I know Tiger Top charges around 200 dollars per night, in some other places you pay maybe 20 dollars for more or less the same thing.
>All the lodges are rustic and simple.
True, this is the same difference as there is with trekking; you can go alone for 5 dollars per day or pay an agency 80 dollars per day for the same trek. Still you always get the same scenery and sometimes fewer experiences by paying more.
This doesnt mean that I hate Tiger Tops or arranged treks, if you have the money, go. We did see a tiger in Chitwan when we stayed on a 10 dollar camp and elephant rides were quite cheap, too.
In Kathmandu there are plenty of agencies selling tours to Chitwan, compare the prices and deside then where you want to go.
Subject: Chitwan
Date: 19 Nov 95
From: "Scott A. Yost" <syost@vic.com>
……
Chitwan is very nice, but if you want to save money, stay in Saura, not Tiger Tops. There, the packages typically run around $60-$90, and normally include an elephant ride, canoe trip and jungle walk, plus meals and transportation. I stayed at Hotel Wildlife Camp, which was quite adequate. Certainly it is better accomodations than you will see in the Everest Region.
You can find a list of what I took trekking in my page http://www.vic.com/nepal/. Look through the links in the
bottom half of the page for the equipment list. I did a tea-house trek. You may want different things if camping. --Scott A. Yost Virtual Interactive Center syost@vic.com Full Service Internet Provider http://www.vic.com/ Knoxville, Tennessee Unimited personal PPP access under $20 - Web page included
Subject: Kathmandu, Pokara and Chitwan spots
From: manuel@ccs.neu.edu (Manuel Freitas)
Date: 24 Jan 96
……despite being a travelers paradise, Nepal is not exactly a top tourist destination. There are no 5-star resorts, no chiq restaurants, and no luxury buses. Nepal IS a paradise :-)
You would have known that Pokhara was first discovered by the westerners, through the hippies in the 60's, as a great place to simple do nothing and smoke lotsa pot. And the beauty of all is that little has changed since then.
But they do have things to do and see there if you're not a trekker.
There's the Bindi Basini Temple, The Tibetan Refugee Camp and school, great hangout places near and off the lake, excelent boat rides in the lake, Devis Falls, just to name a few. But the best of all, the beauty and peacefulness of it all.
And Kathmandu geez, to say that there wasn't anything to do and see is kinda absurd. All the temples and the view from Nagarkot. Don't tell me you're not into Temples and that Buddhism stuff because I'll ask you - What the hell were you doing in Nepal?!?!? I betcha never took a walk by the river at sunrise? Or wondered into the maze of back alleys just soaking up in some of the most untouched culture that there is left in this world?
The Chitwan National Park? I have to agree that that's a bit overated but most people who go there come from cities and places where their idea of wildlife is a packed steak in a supermarket stand.
But the important thing to keep in mind here is not so much what you see but more what is being done. Saving some wildlife species in an already dying world.
But what can you expect in 9 days? Maybe it's best this way, and leave Nepal for the true traveler. Remember to do your reading next time.
All the best,
From: holthe@news.ki.se (Holger Theobald cnsf)
I visited India a couple of months ago together with my girlfriend. We travelled by bus from Kathmandu in Nepal to the Chitwan national park, passed the indian border and continued to Varanasi by train. From Varanasi we continued by train to Agra, Jaipur and Dehli. I guess these are the main attractions. We also continued by air to Madras and Bombay before we went back home. Went purchasing Air India tickets abroad there are often discount tickets available for domestic fligts. (The 2 hour flights to Madras and Bombay costed $20 each).
We went to Nepal and India in the beginning of july and stayed 5 weeks until middle of august 1995. We thought this was a quite good period because it is not the tourist season. At the indian tourist office home in Stockholm they told us that this time is very bad to go because of the warm temperatures and the rain season in india. Thats why we started our tour in Nepal where it is cooler and where the rain comes a bit earlier than in the north west part of india In middle of June temperatures can be very hot in Dehli, this year it was about 45 degrees celcius, but when we arrived in Dehli at end July it was much better temperatures due to the clouds and short periods of rain.
Travelling off season was also good as it was very easy to find hotels, get tickets on trains and buses. Hotel prices are also lower off season. For example in Nepal some hotels charge almost half the price.
In Nepal is more difficult to make trekking in the mountains due to the rain and the snowy mountains are less visible during the premonsun time Due to the rain we did not make a trip with the train to the mountainarea at Shimla north of Dehli, as we were unsure about the risk for landslides in the mountains, which might delay us so that we could miss our flight.
But we were satisfied travelling during the summer even if the tourist offices recommend travelling after the rain season in october to march.
The prices are very low. India is one of the cheapest countries in asia. How much money you spend depends of your standard of living and how much you travel around. A simple hotel room with toilet and shower costs about 250 rupies for 2 persons ($10) and if you want it without own toliet and shower it is even cheaper. Nepal is said to be slightly more expensive but off season the price for the hotels were about the same.
A meal in a local cheap but clean restaurant costs about $2 but off course you can find expensive places too. Bombay is the most expensive city in india with hotel prices about 3 times as much.
My impressions are that it is very easy to travel around by ones own, without a package tour. But you need a guide book with hotels listed etc because it is difficult to get correct information from people as many wants to cheat you to get profit. Other travellers are often more reliable than the indians on the street. Reservations are not needed in advance, there isfor example a special ticket counter for tourist at the railway stations who have a special ticket quota for tourists, so it is enough to by tickets one or a couple of days before departure.
Trains seem to be more safe than busses, specially during night travel as there are bicycles, animals and vehicles without lights on the road at night. Because of this quite common with lorrys and sometimes busses who has crashes along the high ways.
OUT TRIP STARTED IN KATHMANDU We started our trip in Nepal in july 95. We stayed in the capital city Kathmandu for one week on our way to India. The airport is located about 6 km from the city centre and we could walk from the airport with our backpacks. It was interesting to see the life on the streets with people making food, sewing, washing themselves etc and the cows, dogs, monkeys and other animals standing around. Actually we first took a public bus but my girlfriend didnt like the too small buses (built for Nepalese people) which made it impossible to stand straight up in them.
There are plenty of cheap hotels in the Tamel area.
The durbar square in the centre of Kathmandu was nice with its many temples and the kings palace which is now a museum. It is walking distance from the Tamel area. It is also possible to walk to the famous monkey temple with its eyes on the pagoda. The monkeys might be angry, we were advised not to show them our teeth.
TOURS OUTSIDE KATHMANDU From Katmandu we took a local bus to the nearby town Patan which also has a nice durbar square. The town is 5 km from Katmandu and the busses leave from the city bus terminal. There are no signs on the buses but the ticket sellers on the buses shout the d estinations of them at every stop.
From the Katmandu footballstadion are trolley buses going to Baktapur, about 30 km away. This city has a very nice durbar square with many temples. At our visit there was some cases of Cholera so we didnt eat or dring any thing there.
From Baktapur it is possible to continue by bus or taxi to Nagarkot, a 2000m high mountain about 25km away from where it is possible to see the mount Everest when it is not cloudy. The buses do not go very often and they are very full so people have to tr avel on top of the roof. We took a taxi for $15 return. 2 hours on the mountain was enough for us.
There are several hotels for those who want to spend the night to see the snowy mountains during sunrise. At our visit it was too cloudy to see any snowy mountains, July is also in the beginning of the rainseason. During our visit in Nepal we could get a short glimse of some snowy mountains between the clouds ones.
We didnt do any trekking, it is possible but a bit moddy to walk during the rain season. We took a tourist bus to the Chitwan national park.
Actually the travel agencies wanted to sell 3 day package tours but we insisted only bying a bus ticket and then decide what to do etc when we arrived. This was good as we where free to arrange what we liked and to a lower price than other travellers on the same bus. Along the road where crashed lorries and also a few buses, so there seems to be accidents quite often (I would awoid travelling by night).
RENTING AN ELEPHANT IN CHITWAN From Katmandu we went by bus towards the indian boarder. On the way we made a stop at the Chitwan antional park known for its wildlife with rhinos, tigers, bears, birds and other animals. The Chitwan national park in Nepal north of Varanasi was easy reachable by bus. It was interesting going on the back of an elephant in the forrest looking at the rhinos in the national park. There were also crocodiles in the river. During the rainseason it is to mody to get into the park by jeep but it is possible to walk. If you meet a rhino which attacks, you should run away in zigzac and throw you hat behind you. The rhino does not see very well and might attack the hat instead. After running in zig zac you should stand behind a tree so the rhino will not see you.
Some rhinos might also stop if the guide throws a stick and hits the nose.
We didnt walk but we rented an elephant and made a 2 hour tour across the river into the forest. We saw 5 rhinos as there just had been some rain which makes the them come out. There are also crocodiles in the river but we didnt go to look at them. There are plenty of cheap lodges at chitwan and during july there are plenty off free rooms as there are not so many tourists around during this time.
From Chitwan there are daily state buses going to the indian border. We reached the border after a couple of hours on the bus. After some simple formalities at the border we changed buses and continued by bus and train to Varanasi.
Subject: Annapurna Circuit
From: onthabeach@aol.com (OnThaBeach)
Date: 12 Apr 95
I hiked the Annapurna Circuit in October-November 92 and agree with Frank's detailed response.
But for my own observations (Sorry, about the spellings, but my guide books are on loan.)
:
Hike the route counter clockwise, it gives you more time to get in the swing of things before the trail gets rocky and steep. The trail between Jomson and Phokra is popular with trekkers and you'll have no problem finding comfortable inns. However the first two thirds of trek isn't so developed and life will be more rugged - don't look for hot shower in your first two weeks. My favorite village was Tal. It's the first Buddhist village you'll come to and nestled in a steep-walled valley with a waterfall that equals Yosemite's.
Also check out the temple at Braga a few miles from Manang..
Start in early October. The longer you wait the more likely Throung La is likely to be snowed out.
Give yourself at least three weeks. The first and last week will be warm.
The middle third will be the highest and the coldest. From Manang to the pass expect freezing conditions at night.
Yes, I enjoyed myself, even after getting sick on Day 7.
One other hint. Order the circuit trip descriptions from outfitters to get a sense of how to pace your trip and where to stay. And hire a porter.
They need the jobs and the money.
Subject: Annapurna Circuit in late July
From: groenen@ruls30.fsw.leidenuniv.nl (Patrick Groenen)
Date: 10 Apr 95
……
Last year I traveled a small part of the Annapurna circuit during the monsoon season end of July (I believe the monsoon season starts in June to end of August). The weather was not so bad. Ocassionally, there was an enormous shower, usually at night, and during daytime it was usually dry.
Bring an umbrella from Kathmandu (against sun or rain). I liked the monsoon time because there where hardly any tourists, the weather was not too rainy, and the nature was very green. Of course, the clouds prevents the famous views on the snowcapped mountains.
We took the local bus from Dumre to Besisahar which took us about 5 to 6 hours, I think. A very busy bus, where you may have to sit on top. On top is probably the best place, because you can see around, which is much harder inside. Be protected against rain or sun. From Besisahar we walked our way to Bhul-bhule, and further to Baundanda, which is how far we got.
In Baundanda there is an excelent clean and quiet Hotel called Mountain View hotel. They serve good vegetarian food. The owner (Dinesh) is a very friendly person.
During the monsoon time the track is quiet. You should have no problem whatsoever to find hotels. During season I heard from various people that it can become busy. If you arrive late hotels may be full. As far as I know you can camp in the wild in the area that your trecking permit allows for. I don't think it is necessary to camp since on these tea trails there are plenty hotels. Bringing your own camping stuff implies that you have to carry it all with you. On such a trail, every kg counts! I would choose for hotels. Of course hotels are very basic on this track and rooms are small.
It can get quite cold (in summer around freezing) at higher altitude.
Therefore, bring a rain-wind jack, at least one warm pullover, mountain shoes.
I enjoyed the part I walked. The next time I would like to walk more and try the pass.
Subject: Annapurna Circuit
From: rkjoshi@acs.ucalgary.ca (Rajendra Kumar Joshi)
Date: 13 Apr 95
……
The word is "trek", the word comes from the Dutch via the South : African Boers. "Trek" in Dutch means "pull", the Boers had covered wagons : that they pulled. Trekkers in Nepal dont't pull any kind of wagon, but the term has come to mean a 'a strenous journey.'
Anyway, to answer your question: 5000-10,000 trekkers per year 'do' the Annapurna Circuit. The majority of these do so in the spring and fall, summer is monsoon time and in the winter the Thorung La (pass) tends to be closed. The annual number is far less than the number of people you can expect to run into at a US national park on the July the 4th weekend.
Most people go anti-clockwise around the Annapurna Massive, if the pass is closed you will meet people coming back, discouraged. Don't get discouraged, the chances are good the pass will be open by the time you get there.
If you walk fast you will pass some people. If you go slow you will be passed. If you walk at 'average' speed you will meet fewer people.
People tend to congregate at certain places. In Manang to hear the Himalayan Rescue Association talk about high altitude sickness (do go and attend, it may save your life.) Because of the danger of high alt.
sickness people also like to have a rest day at Manang. You can explore the lake and the glacier. I also saw some vultures eating dead horses that had been dumped in a stream ( I got to within about 2 meters of them, they are very graceful when you see them gliding in the air, but up close they look more revolting.)
At Thorung Phedi people congregate to go over the pass. Normal departure time is between 3 am and 6 am, so that you get over the pass before the snow gets too sloshy as the sun warms it up at the summit..It helps if the moon is available to light up your way. Please boycott the rolls and other bready things that are baked at Thorung Phediall the brush for miles around is being sacrificed in the oven for it and you are better off eating porridge before starting over the pass. The porridge contains more water to help counteract dehydration at the high altidude.
The next place where people congregate is Tatto (hot) pani (water) the site of some VERY HOT hot springs. You will loll in the concrete pool with Hindu Sadhus from India who are on their way to the shrines at Muktinath.
After Tatopani there is a day of continuous climbing to Gorepani where, early the next morning, everyone who can drag themselves out of bed at dawn climbs another couple of hundred meters up to Poon Hill for a view of Daulaghiri, the Annapurnas and Machapuchare and a few other peaks.
All in all, you will meet some people along the way. You will probably like them, as they are people like yourself who are into travel and adventure and are willing to leave the comfort of the Holiday Inn far behind.
>- can you camp in the wild
Yes. If you plan to do this it would be a good idea to bring a tent that doesnt let too much wind in. It is possible to go from lodge to lodge.
I took a tent on my trek to Makalu and one night the only reasonably flat place to camp was on the trail (it wasnt very busy, especially at night.) The coldest night I have ever spent anywhere was in the Annapurna Sanctuary. There I slept in a hut with the wind blowing through the cracks between the rock in the wall. I had tried to invite myself into the (wind proof) tent of some Americans who were camped nearby to no avail.
Even though I slept between my Sherpa guide and another Nepali who was there I was COLD that night (and the space blanket I had wrapped around myself retained all the moisture from my body so that my sleeping bag was soaking wet in the morning.
>- how cold does it get on the highest parts of the track
Cold enough. Good idea to be prepared with down jacket, warm pants, long underwear. Hat, and gloves. Dont forget to bring sunglasses against the glare. Remember to keep drinking liquids even when it is very cold. One time trekking at high altitude I felt very strange, not well, but I couldnt explain what was wrong with what I was feeling. Having descended a ways I drank some water and within minutes I felt better, I had experienced the biochemichal side effects of dehydration. As I mentioned earlier, porridge (or soup) can be a good way to take in WARM liquids at altitude.
>Did you enjoy your track?
What do you think? s8*)
Frank : Dutch in Seattle *Frank Kroger, World Neighbors volunteer Seattle WA US fkroger@halcyon.com ** World Neighbors: working in a cost effective way at the forefront of *** efforts to help the poor of the world help themselves. ****Look for WN on the upcoming PBS series the "Quiet Revolution." ***** World Neighbors Home Page http://www.halcyon.com/fkroger/wn.html
Subject: Trekking to Everest base-camp
From: "Per Löwdin" <per.lowdin@statsvet.uu.se>
Date: 6 Dec 95
……
Talking about an expedition to the base camp seems to be wide of the mark. There is a beaten track all the way. En route there are hundreds of hotels that cater to trekkers. Finding the way is no problem. There are hundreds of other trekkers and the trekking manuals explain all You need to know. In order to get all the way to the base camp proper bring good shoes, warm clothing, and a good sleeping bag. In late autumn, winter and early spring it may be rather cold.
If You insist on going with porters there are several well reputed trekking agencies in Kathmandu. They will gladly set You up for the trekk. But You are better of on Your own I would say. Set aside at least three weeks to do it in both directions.
Per Löwdin
---------------------------------------------------------- Per Löwdin Statsvetenskapliga institutionen Box 514 751 20 Uppsala Telefon 018-18 34 15, Email: Per.Lowdin@statvet.uu.se,dokomb@us.us.se
From: "Per Lšwdin" <dokomb@us.uu.se>
Date: 2 Feb 96
Peter Stevens <peter@suraboyo.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>A nice sideline is to go to Gokyo Lake.
Absolutely
>This is (as I remember - its a
>long time since) a three day excursion from Namche, or a really hard,
>hazardous days trek from Gorak Shep, by a short cut.
Well, You have to cross Cho La a five thousand meter pass. If You are prepared and have good sense it is not particularly hazardous in fair conditions. A small glacier must be crossed. Though to do it safely it is better to do it in two days then in one. In fact I doubt that it is at all possible to do it in one day. Unless You are a runner.
From: Peter Stevens <peter@suraboyo.demon.co.uk>
Date: 30 Jan 96
A nice sideline is to go to Gokyo Lake. This is (as I remember - its a long time since) a three day excursion from Namche, or a really hard, hazardous days trek from Gorak Shep, by a short cut.
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